Ven's heart and Sora's heart.

[Star Light]

Semi-nice theory. It has alot of holes but if you can rember aka quit smoking [Ed didn't want to torcher you with the new law you know] you can clear it out. It's not the best theory but it's a theory no less. I'm not saying this to be mean. I liked the old Avatar it made me laugh.

[PostMentalFerocity]

Originally Posted by Star Light

Semi-nice theory. It has alot of holes

Eh, I wasn't really trying.

but if you can rember aka quit smoking

Eh, whatever. I will if you want me to. ^_^

[Ed didn't want to torcher you with the new law you know]

What the hell did you say? I didn't understand that.

you can clear it out. It's not the best theory but it's a theory no less. I'm not saying this to be mean.

I really didn't try. It was actually more of a random thought than a theory.

I liked the old Avatar it made me laugh.

It was time for a change. I was getting tired of it.

Benimaru: Do you not understand?

[HadesDragon]

What the hell did you say? I didn't understand that.

I believe she means "I don't want to go too hard on you with the arrival of TMM's new law".

[PostMentalFerocity]

Originally Posted by HadesDragon

I believe she means "I don't want to go too hard on you with the arrival of TMM's new law".

That's funny. I'd roast her. But anyway, are you going to offer any critique? I see you actually posted in one of my theories without provocation.

[Snow Candy]

Hmm.. I see. Good theory, so far. So are you saying Roxas was engraved by Ven or something then?

[Organization_42]

Well, this has some potential. I believe you're right about why Ven's heart couldn't have gone into Roxas. Unless of course, Ven/Sora did create a heartless when Ven's heart went to Roxas, and we just didn't see it. There were plenty of Heartless in Hollow Bastion, and the scene was basically focused on Sora trying to get back to Donald, Goofy, and Kairi. But I guess that's not very likely.

The idea of engraving Ven on Sora's heart is an interesting idea, but what exactly do you mean by that, and how do you think it would be done? Do you mean that the contents of Ven's heart, or a part of him, were somehow planted inside Sora? Again, it's an interesting idea, and it would explain the connection to Roxas, but this theory would be a lot stronger if you remembered/came up with more details for it.

[EyeOfDiscovery]

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

This is technically a theory, but not really. I came up with this the other day while I was smoking. It COULD explain why Roxas look like Ven. This is completely unfounded, and based on absolutely nothing; yes, PMF's using a variable.

Sure, we could all say that Ven's heart was in Sora when he lost his heart. No, I'm not using spoilers because if you haven't played a 6 year old game yet, you deserve to be spoiled.

But that would leave the mystery of how the heart got into Roxas, when 1 of 3 things would happen:

Had he have no darkness in his heart, it would have remained in the world of light and in no way go inside Roxas.

Had he darkness darkness in his heart, it would have created a heartless; again, not able to be in Roxas.

It would have returned to Kingdom Hearts.

In any event, it would have no chance of going to Roxas.

And yes, we all know Ven was all "Erase me dude becoz I'm so emo bff."

And I'm just saying that once something is erased, it's gone. If Ven was erased, he's gone. I personally believe Ven is gone.

I'm not going to drag this out longer than I should for a thought that's not even a real theory.

I think Terra engraved Ven's heart in Sora, or at least a portion of Ven's heart. In the very least, knowing that Sora was going to get A Keyblade, decided to give Ven a chance to help out the future generation...or something. Look, the details are fuzzy because my memory's hazy on the subject.

Anyway, it explains why Roxas looks like Ven
Sora Dual-wielding
Roxas allegedly having a heart
And something else, I forgot.

Anyway....whatever [goes to fondle self and molest VAT's corpse]

It would explain why Terra would possibly be looking at Sora and Riku on the beach..
But it also leaves the question of why, if Ven did get 'erased' then why isn't his armor and keyblade kept somewhere like Aqua's was? Or was she that big of a role in KH?

[gotegenks]

i heard somewhere that in the fm+ terra fight that he says "i didn't pick you" or something like that so do you think he wouldve said that if he had indeed "engraved" vens heart inside sora?

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Death is the same everywhere though. Death is death, no matter where.

Holy shit, you still don't get it. Does death have to be involved with something that is not alive? Again, I never said anything about death. You're being constrained by your own preconceived notions about life.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Don't take it so lightly. No one is exempt from death, not even a nobody.

We have:
Living
Dead
Inanimate
[Non-Existant.*]

Non-existant in the game is lacking a heart, considering that your heart is your identity. NObody is really just a person lacking an identity.

You seem to have a habit of ignoring what I say. Nothing to do with death. And, by the way, Nobodies don't die. They fade back into darkness. Since they don't exist, they have no life to lose.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

A soul gives life. A soul ISN'T life in the game. There's a huge difference there.

I can give you ice cream but I am not ice cream. >_>

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Through logic and common sense. Meet me on the other side.

Haha, hypocrisy -looks down at next response-. I like how you assume the role of what does and does not apply in KH, despite what the game does or does not say. It's rich.

And if THAT'S common sense. Ouch. You need some fine tuning, my friend. A soul is an essential component in creating life, but on its own, it is not life, otherwise we'd consider dead people alive.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

In Kingdom Hearts ducks can use magic and little boys can fly. Sense doesn't ALWAYS apply. You're trying to argue with magic. DISNEY magic at that.

I'm arguing using the game's creator's words. What more do you want? A heart is proof of life. But it isn't proof of a soul.

A heart is proof of life. Do we know this to be true in the game? Yes, Nomura confirmed it.

A heart is proof of a soul. Can we disprove this through the game? Yes, as is the case with Heartless and Nobodies. That's logic taken from the very game itself.

Therefore, it's obvious to see that a life and soul are two different things, they have to be, otherwise the game would have rather huge plotholes. That's plain 100% proof right in your face against you theory, yet you ignore it, throw it away. Time to face it, man. There's nothing wrong with being wrong.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

No, I'm saying that the heart, IF in existence [this includes a heartless] is proof that someone is alive.
With the soul being life, one can say, as long as you have a soul, you're alive. Without the soul you're dead. A soul itself doesn't go around. If the soul is gone, the heart and the body are gone too.

With a heart AND soul, you are alive.
Without a soul, you are dead.
Without a heart, you are not alive. Not dead, but not alive, ie Nobodies/Kairi. This is what I was saying about not having to be dead to not be alive.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Soul = life.

Is proven to be wrong.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Just because it isn't said out directly, doesn't make it not true.

You're right, but just not in this case.

[PostMentalFerocity]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

Holy shit, you still don't get it. Does death have to be involved with something that is not alive? Again, I never said anything about death. You're being constrained by your own preconceived notions about life.

Unless the objest doesn't exist or is inanimate, then yes.

You seem to have a habit of ignoring what I say. Nothing to do with death. And, by the way, Nobodies don't die. They fade back into darkness. Since they don't exist, they have no life to lose.

I never said nobodies die, unless that soul is removed, then the body and soul do die.

A soul gives life. A soul ISN'T life in the game. There's a huge difference there.

And without it, a being that was once alive, dies.

Haha, hypocrisy -looks down at next response-. I like how you assume the role of what does and does not apply in KH, despite what the game does or does not say. It's rich.

I like the same of you.

And if THAT'S common sense. Ouch. You need some fine tuning, my friend. A soul is an essential component in creating life, but on its own, it is not life, otherwise we'd consider dead people alive.

On its own it dies too.

I'm arguing using the game's creator's words. What more do you want? A heart is proof of life. But it isn't proof of a soul.

And like I said, you need a soul to be alive.

A heart is proof of a soul. Can we disprove this through the game? Yes, as is the case with Heartless and Nobodies. That's logic taken from the very game itself.

You missed what I said. As long as it's still in existence [not in the nobody sense] it's there and is still connected.

Therefore, it's obvious to see that a life and soul are two different things, they have to be, otherwise the game would have rather huge plotholes. That's plain 100% proof right in your face against you theory, yet you ignore it, throw it away. Time to face it, man. There's nothing wrong with being wrong.

Same for you. There's nothing wrong with being wrong. Without the soul the body and heart would die. As in gone forever and cannot come back. Not in Kingdom Hearts where it's retrievable by any darkness wielding maniac who feels like it.

With a heart AND soul, you are alive.
Without a soul, you are dead.
Without a heart, you are not alive. Not dead, but not alive, ie Nobodies/Kairi. This is what I was saying about not having to be dead to not be alive.

Then that falls under non-existence like I was saying. I never said that a heartless was dead. I never said the nobodies were dead. I said without the soul, it all dies. Heart, Soul and Body. While the soul is still in existence, be it with a nobody or otherwise, it's not dead.

Tell me what it is exactly you think I'm saying. Because I'm thinking you have the wrong idea.

Is proven to be wrong.

Not really.

You're right, but just not in this case.

I am right period.

[Organization_42]

Time to bring out the Secret Ansem Reports...

Secret Ansem Report #4:

The distant days spent in that beautiful paradise are an illusion to me now. How long have I been here, banished to the realm of nothingness? It is only by relying upon my anger and hatred that I have been able to retain my sense of self here, where all existence is nullified. My heart is being overcome with hatred toward my apprentices, possessed by the darkness, and with the anger I feel for stupidly allowing myself to be betrayed.

Is the darkness eating away at my heart? I cannot continue to idle away my time here. What are Xehanort and the other attempting to do? I must unravel the mystery of these “Ansem Reports,” intercept my apprentices, and defeat them. That is my mission…the only way to repay the world for my sins. Those beings who lack hearts – Heartless – must be the key. The darkness of the heart, made flesh. Cursed shadows who not only lack hearts, but multiply by seizing hearts from any and all living things. Where have they come from, and where are they going?

3 elements combine to create life: a heart, a soul, and a body. But what of the soul and body left behind when the heart is lost? When the soul leaves the body, its vessel, life gives way to death, but what about when the heart leaves? A being does not perish when its heart leaves its body. The heart alone disappears in the darkness. There is little time. If I remain in the realm much longer, I will certainly learn these lessons the hard way. My heart is already a captive of the darkness.

There you have it, straight from the game. When you lose your heart, you don't die, your heart is taken over by darkness and that darkness becomes a Heartless. Your body and soul form the Nobody. If the Heartless and Nobody are destroyed, in that order, the three elements come back together and the person becomes whole again. When you lose your soul, you die. You can't become whole again if you lose your soul in the Kingdom Hearts universe.

[gotegenks]

how would one JUST lose their soul anyway? and it's probably true that when the heartless and nobody are defeated, then you come back whole, but if that is true, then are people just IMMORTAL in the kh universe? or is death not the same as becoming a heartless/nobody? o.o

[Grace Assassin]

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Unless the objest doesn't exist or is inanimate, then yes.

Or it exists in a video game where imagination is stretched beyond the ordinary.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

I never said nobodies die, unless that soul is removed, then the body and soul do die.

Oh, funny:

No one is exempt from death, not even a nobody.

Because you did. Looks like you're not too sure what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

And without it, a being that was once alive, dies.

Right. Because it's necessary for life. It isn't life itself.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

I like the same of you.

I'm afraid there's nothing to like then considering that I'm using actual proof.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

On its own it dies too.

... If a soul "dies," then that would mean that it has its own life. >_>
And where, might I ask, did you find in or out of the game something that says a soul dies anyway? DBZ, perhaps?

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

And like I said, you need a soul to be alive.

So? You're ignoring what I'm saying. You need a heart to be alive too.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

You missed what I said. As long as it's still in existence [not in the nobody sense] it's there and is still connected.

But the person is not alive.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Same for you. There's nothing wrong with being wrong. Without the soul the body and heart would die. As in gone forever and cannot come back. Not in Kingdom Hearts where it's retrievable by any darkness wielding maniac who feels like it.

Oh, the difference is that I know there's nothing wrong with being wrong, I just know when I am too. And that's not now.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Then that falls under non-existence like I was saying. I never said that a heartless was dead. I never said the nobodies were dead. I said without the soul, it all dies. Heart, Soul and Body. While the soul is still in existence, be it with a nobody or otherwise, it's not dead.

Tell me what it is exactly you think I'm saying. Because I'm thinking you have the wrong idea.

You're saying that soul is life, not that it creates life, bluntly put.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

Not really.

Yeah, really.

Originally Posted by PostMentalFerocity

I am right period.

What happened to knowing when you're wrong? BTW, do you happen to be oathkeepersoravalor over at KHU?

OK. Respond to each of these. Agree or disagree and explain why. Do not beat around the bush and refer to something you said unless it is relevant.

1. A heart is proof of life.
2. Nobodies have bodies and souls, but don't have hearts. Heartless are created from hearts, but don't have souls.
3. Because you believe a life is a soul, a heart being proof of soul would apply as well. Simple replacing of "Life" with "soul." (If you don't agree with this, then a life can't be a soul, obviously)
4. Because Nobodies and Heartless are exceptions to "a heart is a proof of a soul," this theory is wrong.

There you have it, straight from the game. When you lose your heart, you don't die, your heart is taken over by darkness and that darkness becomes a Heartless. Your body and soul form the Nobody. If the Heartless and Nobody are destroyed, in that order, the three elements come back together and the person becomes whole again. When you lose your soul, you die. You can't become whole again if you lose your soul in the Kingdom Hearts universe.

That's referring to Nobodies. When you lose your heart, "the being does not perish." This has nothing to do with death. As said earlier, Nobodies are non-existent, and thus are not alive.

[Organization_42]

Originally Posted by Grace Assassin

That's referring to Nobodies. When you lose your heart, "the being does not perish." This has nothing to do with death. As said earlier, Nobodies are non-existent, and thus are not alive.

No he's not. At that point, Ansem hadn't even discovered Nobodies yet. He mentions having just come across them in the Secret Report #6.

It has everything to do with death. "Perish" and "death" mean the same thing. The person isn't dead, just incomplete, wheras when a soul is lost, the person is actually dead.

Originally Posted by gotegenks

how would one JUST lose their soul anyway? and it's probably true that when the heartless and nobody are defeated, then you come back whole, but if that is true, then are people just IMMORTAL in the kh universe? or is death not the same as becoming a heartless/nobody? o.o

No, it's not the same thing. In the KH universe, people only lose their souls when they die. When that happens, the person can't come back. A person can become restored if he or she loses his or heart, only because that person has not truly died. The soul still resides in the body, even though it's become a Nobody. Once the soul leaves the body, everything dies.

[I<3Roxas]

OMG PMF, you're going against yourself here. In many other instances, you say that the LS fight isn't important but what he says is, and in it he clearly stated that Sora wasn't meant to get the keyblade. Now you turn around and say that Terra thought Sora would get one? Is this PMF having internal conflict or is Terra not sure of what he wants? I predict that you will say that what Terra wanted was RIku to have the keyblade, but he knew that Sora would have it anyways, but that is a little farfetched if you ask me.