Mega Theory

[Xziled]

Originally Posted by Ansem Darkheart

Really guys!!!! VAT, normally I agree with your points and usually you back it up with facts. But this time is way different. Light and Dark are in every facet of existence, IN THE KH UNIVERSE. The way light and darkness are governed in real life is not the same as in kingdom hearts. You have to understand the difference before even posting your thoughts.

My interpretation of Ansem has always been that of darkness and evil. We know that he has aspirations to have infinite and eternal DARKNESS. If these were tools, and from my understanding light is better, why would he not want Light? Why did he meet his demise to light? He was willing to sacrifice all worlds and people to get this darkness, this is my definition of evil. I can't believe I actually have to argue that Ansem is evil, for christ sakes.

About JRPG's and Square. I myself own and have beaten the majority of Final Fantasy games. The stories are always complicated, some more that others(VIII). It takes a while to discover who the bad guys are, but once it is clear, they are essentially evil. In the first FF, the warriors of LIGHT fought the DARK Knight Garland. Light and Dark are easily defined here. Yes there are troubled anti heros which seem bad at first, but they usually are doing it for good reasons. Siefer and Kain, FF VII and IV respectively are representations of this. Even though the stories are complicated and the lines of morality are crossed, it is always known, eventually who the badguy is and they are always evil. This is my interpretation of Final Fantasy's only.

This however could be applied to Riku as well. "There is darkness in every heart." Leon. Only Princesses of Heart are exempt from this rule (that we know of). This represents the shadow of evil that every person has no matter what. Dependant on the person is how much darkness they have. In the beginning of KH 1 Riku was just like Sora, but more ambitious. When presented with a chance to see other worlds he accepted it, even if it meant taking darkness into his heart. Then later when he has this darkness he is bad.

Long story short the Riku without darkness is good, and Riku with darkness is bad. Still can't believe i had to argue that Ansem is evil.

Nobodies are a whole different ball game. They are not evil or good. They are doing evil things, like turning people into heartless. Even though to them it is for a good reason. None the less they are killing people. This is why they have to be stopped, and are considered evil by Sora and gang.

VAT and VAT supporters. This post is for you. Please read it before sending me back one sentence saying i'm wrong.

come on man we're just getting off this argument and now you wanna start it up again give it a rest sheesh

[V.A.T.13]

VAT and VAT supporters. This post is for you. Please read it before sending me back one sentence saying i'm wrong.

No ur wrong lol.

The way light and darkness are governed in real life is not the same as in kingdom hearts. You have to understand the difference before even posting your thoughts.

Oh? So I guess Mickey's speech is completely bullshit?

My interpretation

I should've stop reading there....but, you proabably having something good to say.

of Ansem has always been that of darkness and evil. We know that he has aspirations to have infinite and eternal DARKNESS. If these were tools, and from my understanding light is better, why would he not want Light? Why did he meet his demise to light? He was willing to sacrifice all worlds and people to get this darkness, this is my definition of evil. I can't believe I actually have to argue that Ansem is evil, for christ sakes.

Because he believed that Darkness was stronger. He was later proven wrong at the end and was like "Oh f*ck...."*explodes*

And again, I say, this is your definition, and I have mine, and other people have theres. Therefore, there is no definite answer as to what evil is.

About JRPG's and Square. I myself own and have beaten the majority of Final Fantasy games. The stories are always complicated, some more that others(VIII). It takes a while to discover who the bad guys are, but once it is clear, they are essentially evil. In the first FF, the warriors of LIGHT fought the DARK Knight Garland. Light and Dark are easily defined here. Yes there are troubled anti heros which seem bad at first, but they usually are doing it for good reasons. Siefer and Kain, FF VII and IV respectively are representations of this. Even though the stories are complicated and the lines of morality are crossed, it is always known, eventually who the badguy is and they are always evil. This is my interpretation of Final Fantasy's only.

One thing:
All those games are finished. Over. There is nothing more too them except fanfics and doujinshi.
KH is still going so anything could change at any moment all at the will of some zipper/belt 30+ lovin fanboy.

The game itself has given hints of Dark =/= evil and etc. As we see, slowly but surely, darkness is being used for good purposes.. It's only a matter of time before we see the dark side of light. (paradox, or oxymoron?)

This however could be applied to Riku as well. "There is darkness in every heart." Leon. Only Princesses of Heart are exempt from this rule (that we know of). This represents the shadow of evil that every person has no matter what. Dependant on the person is how much darkness they have. In the beginning of KH 1 Riku was just like Sora, but more ambitious. When presented with a chance to see other worlds he accepted it, even if it meant taking darkness into his heart. Then later when he has this darkness he is bad.

Long story short the Riku without darkness is good, and Riku with darkness is bad. Still can't believe i had to argue that Ansem is evil.

So, when Riku is using his dark powers during CoM and KH2, he is evil? Good job.

Nobodies are a whole different ball game. They are not evil or good. They are doing evil things, like turning people into heartless. Even though to them it is for a good reason. None the less they are killing people. This is why they have to be stopped, and are considered evil by Sora and gang.

You know, Sora wasn't the least bit hesitant when killing off such people. Neither was Ansem or anyone else. In the case of Demyx, who was actually nice and a lil worried about what he was doing, Sora and crew didn't even consider reasoning with the misguided dope. And then again, Xemnas gives his speech that's basically saying "Why u picking on us, we just wanna live too" and Sora is all "LOL F*CK NO BITCH U GONNA DIE! " Xemnas: "Oh well, f*ck you shithead...>:"

[Xziled]

and the arguments continue

[V.A.T.13]

Of course it does. :'D

[Xziled]

yea i should tell my friends to join this site

[Xuan]

Well, if you judge Ansem, the Seeker of Darkness and the Nobodies by their actions, then they are evil. Ansem has nearly plunged the entire world into eternal Darkness. The Nobodies hunt down Heartless to obtain hearts so they could be human again, and is willing to use anyone just to accomplish their goal.

However, if you judge them by their thinking, then it's a totally different thing: Ansem truly believes that everything should be plunged to the Darkness because he thinks that that is the best fo everyone. His knowledge had taught him that the Darkness is the best, and anything else doesn't matter (Which is why he said to Sora, "You know nothing. You understand nothing." So to Ansem, he was actually trying to do good for the world. After all, who is to judge good and evil? Who knows, that he might be right?

And to the Nobodies, why do they even care whether their actions are evil? They have no heart. They could no longer feel whether the actions are right or wrong. Their lack of heart leads to lack of emotions and thus altering their judgement on their actions. They do not think it was wrong even though humans think they were. And if we are to think even more deeper, they are a hundred times more pitiful than humans. Their lack of heart is much more unbearable than losing an arm or a leg. And bearing with that thought, naturally they would think that their judgements are right. All they wanted to be is to feel again, to be human again. Why should the humans stop us? This is why the Organization XIII seemed to be burning with hatred and anger, even though they do not have hearts.

[Xziled]

well we finally got over the PoV now at least...

[Rufus Shinra]

I absolutely agree with the post of V.A.T.13 and of Xuan too.

Look, even a character as evil as Ganondorf in Zelda, even him, his evilness finished by being less... Evil? In Zelda Wind Waker. If a character such as him can be said "not totally evil", I see no problem from trying to judge on Ansem's thinking.

[Keyblade Spirit]

We can also say that Ansem(h) wanted to plunge the worlds into eternal darkness because if they were, they would be united under one ruler, him. Maybe he just wanted universal peace? And once he succeeded, he would realize that what he did was wrong, and fight with Sora to seal away the darkness that he thought would make a better world.

[Xziled]

now that we've gotten over this can we get back to the theory of this thread

[Anima Relic]

Finally the madness has ended :lol:

[Xziled]

yea unless someone starts it up again

[Gildragon]

Originally Posted by Xziled

yea unless someone starts it up again

don't tempt me. I don't want to start a pointless convo either.

[Xziled]

if the grandma story does run parallel with the truth then i guess its safe to say that it would also go with yannis's teory on eclipse