{%}|<~Club for Clubbing Xion with a Club Club~>|{%}

[oathkeeperriku09]

Sorry for the double post, didn't mean to do that.

[whittertwitter]

To Writter, death does exist in KH, just a different concept of life and death. And Terra and Ven never died, did you finish BBS and do I have to shout this but I will...

TERRA/VEN AND XEMNAS/ROXAS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE! HOW CAN YOU LIVE ON SOMEONE THAT IS NOT YOU!

Because of DDD spoilers, I can't say why, but want to clear it up.

Warning: I am NOT a morning person. If I come across as bitchy, that's why.

That's what I meant, but it still feels like a total cop-out. So far, the only person who seems to have actually died is Repliku; everyone else has lost their heart and/or been subject to body-surfing shenanigans, and the former is something we definitely know is possible to recover from. I did finish BBS. I am aware that Terra and Ven never died, yes. I didn't word that part very well.

I know. That's why I said symbolically; parts of Terra and Ven were involved in the creation of Xemnas and Roxas but the latter two are still unique individuals. Kind of like how in Inuyasha Kagome is Kikyo reborn, but still her own person. That's what I meant. I hope this cleared things up.

[oathkeeperriku09]

Warning: I am NOT a morning person. If I come across as bitchy, that's why.

That's what I meant, but it still feels like a total cop-out. So far, the only person who seems to have actually died is Repliku; everyone else has lost their heart and/or been subject to body-surfing shenanigans, and the former is something we definitely know is possible to recover from. I did finish BBS. I am aware that Terra and Ven never died, yes. I didn't word that part very well.

I know. That's why I said symbolically; parts of Terra and Ven were involved in the creation of Xemnas and Roxas but the latter two are still unique individuals. Kind of like how in Inuyasha Kagome is Kikyo reborn, but still her own person. That's what I meant. I hope this cleared things up.

Well this series is not perfect, than again it is based on Disney and Square Enix. The latter never having much death except for it's villains and many of the main characters. I won't call it a cop out becuse well It is a kids game and sure Square Enix has many characters dying and remain dead.

(Does Aeris come to mean?)

My advice to not take the series so seriously. Believe what you believe but take it in a mature way. I'm a writer and it's my choice who lives and dies, and who can come back. I done death even before KH confimed the concept of life and death.

Hopes it helps. And don't remind me of Inuyasha. As much as I love that show, if someone does a bad comparsion to that like what people do when they compare Star Wars, Happy Potter, Pokemon, etc to KH, I lose my mind and normally I'm much calmmer now than how I was. (Except for the all caps thing)

[whittertwitter]

Well this series is not perfect, than again it is based on Disney and Square Enix. The latter never having much death except for it's villains and many of the main characters. I won't call it a cop out becuse well It is a kids game and sure Square Enix has many characters dying and remain dead.

(Does Aeris come to mean?)

My advice to not take the series so seriously. Believe what you believe but take it in a mature way. I'm a writer and it's my choice who lives and dies, and who can come back. I done death even before KH confimed the concept of life and death.

Hopes it helps. And don't remind me of Inuyasha. As much as I love that show, if someone does a bad comparsion to that like what people do when they compare Star Wars, Happy Potter, Pokemon, etc to KH, I lose my mind and normally I'm much calmmer now than how I was. (Except for the all caps thing)

Just because something is "for kids" doesn't mean it can't handle adult concepts in a mature way. Most animated Disney films are G-rated yet several have dealt with death, Bambi's mother and Mufasa being the most famous examples. Yes, Aerith does come to mind; I mentioned her a few pages back as an example of how a character dying and staying dead can have a huge impact on story and player alike. (Also, regarding this series being "for kids", I wonder how many kids actually play these games. My youngest sister is in the target age group and the games are way too hard for her; the other two are closer to me in age, and even they have trouble with some of the harder bosses.)

How am I taking the series "too seriously"? I'm not saying it should be some epic work of art that should go down in history as a classic; I'm just pointing out that actually having characters die rather than losing their heart, being possessed, or hiding in someone else's heart shouldn't be completely out of the question considering everything else that's happened in the series. You could argue that everyone in this club is taking the games too seriously, but we all seem to have a fun time doing it. I know I do.

I'm not even mad. Okay, just forget any comparisons I've made if they suck so much.

[Reika]

I hatez hand heldz
(Really, without Dissidia and BBS my PsP is useless).

/pcgames

I LOVE handhelds. <3 My PSP is my favorite game system, even if I only have 2 games for it (BBS and Crisis Core).

It really grinds my gears when I see this, too. Repliku probably got the worst deal out of all the Kingdom Hearts characters. His existence was short and full of pain, and so far he seems to be the only exception to the "there is no concept of death in Kingdom Hearts" bullshit. (Don't EVEN get me started on that; it kills any dramatic tension when you know the characters are going to end up okay. The fact that Nomura is probably going to give us an asspull explanation for how Terra and Ven are going to go back to normal makes it even worse; I was really hoping that Terra and Ven would live on symbolically through Xemnas and Roxas, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen.)

Yeah, he did. :c Repliku deserved so much better. At least Xion had people who cared about her. Nobody gave a damn about Repliku.
Agreed there. I was hoping AtW would stay dead, too. A heroic sacrifice that STAYED a sacrifice would have been a redeeming quality for a much-disliked character like him.
I'm actually kinda glad Ven and Roxas stay separated. They may share a heart, but they are otherwise two VERY different people. They deserve to stay separated, so Roxas can live on in Sora and get to be with Namine when Sora and Kairi are together and Ven can keep his body to himself.

I was on Tvtropes and I noticed that Xion is no longer and example on the Faux Action Girl page.

Happens all the time, unfortunately. I tell you, some Xion fans get WAY too obsessive over a game character. >.> The ones at TVTropes need to chill out. They're why I avoid the KH pages at TVTropes.

[oathkeeperriku09]

Just because something is "for kids" doesn't mean it can't handle adult concepts in a mature way. Most animated Disney films are G-rated yet several have dealt with death, Bambi's mother and Mufasa being the most famous examples. Yes, Aerith does come to mind; I mentioned her a few pages back as an example of how a character dying and staying dead can have a huge impact on story and player alike. (Also, regarding this series being "for kids", I wonder how many kids actually play these games. My youngest sister is in the target age group and the games are way too hard for her; the other two are closer to me in age, and even they have trouble with some of the harder bosses.)

How am I taking the series "too seriously"? I'm not saying it should be some epic work of art that should go down in history as a classic; I'm just pointing out that actually having characters die rather than losing their heart, being possessed, or hiding in someone else's heart shouldn't be completely out of the question considering everything else that's happened in the series. You could argue that everyone in this club is taking the games too seriously, but we all seem to have a fun time doing it. I know I do.

I'm not even mad. Okay, just forget any comparisons I've made if they suck so much.

I grew up to Disney, so I know that (I was writing that on my cellphone and It took me longer than I thought so I forgot that)

I know alot of characters prople want dead and never to return(Me included), but nornmally I deal with

I think I got you confused with another member on this site who conplains about even the slightwest change in the story, sorry.

[whittertwitter]

Yeah, he did. :c Repliku deserved so much better. At least Xion had people who cared about her. Nobody gave a damn about Repliku.
Agreed there. I was hoping AtW would stay dead, too. A heroic sacrifice that STAYED a sacrifice would have been a redeeming quality for a much-disliked character like him.
I'm actually kinda glad Ven and Roxas stay separated. They may share a heart, but they are otherwise two VERY different people. They deserve to stay separated, so Roxas can live on in Sora and get to be with Namine when Sora and Kairi are together and Ven can keep his body to himself.

AtW and Master Eraqus were both characters I wish had actually been dead rather than blasted off again and inside Terra's heart, and I actually quite like AtW! (Master Eraqus I'm kind of "meh" about; I think his role could have been filled by previously established characters.) Their "death" scenes were really emotionally-charged.

Oh, believe me, I did not mean that I wanted them to join together. In fact, that's what I've been worried Nomura is going to do ever since Ven met Lea in BBS; just have Ven come back and say that Roxas is the same exact person and call it good. I was thinking something more along the lines of Ven not wanting to risk Master Xehanort using him again or Vanitas coming back so he gives up his body for Roxas to use. Terra's spirit would be placated by Master Xehanort's demise, leaving Xemnas free to use his body. (This one is harder to justify considering I doubt he'd be pleased to see Ven giving up on life, which might cause him to linger longer.) Honestly though, these were my thoughts before KH3D came out and I've given up on seeing them happen. I'm pretty much okay with whatever happens now.

I grew up to Disney, so I know that (I was writing that on my cellphone and It took me longer than I thought so I forgot that)

I know alot of characters prople want dead and never to return(Me included), but nornmally I deal with

I think I got you confused with another member on this site who conplains about even the slightwest change in the story, sorry.

It's not that I want them dead because I dislike them; I want them dead or to never recover from body-surfing shenanigans for Rule of Drama. As I mentioned to Reika, I'm over it at this point and I'll probably be satisfied with the resolution; we'll always have fanfiction if it isn't satisfactory. Besides, FFXIII-2 looks like it's going to give me any drama I could possibly want and then some.

I don't think I complain that much; this is the only place I post on the site, and I don't even post here that often. It's all good. I was being a bitch anyway.

[oathkeeperriku09]

Nevermind, I can't write spoiler tags on my phone

And Eraqus is long gone after Xehanort did to his new body.

But if you want to know, ask Gold

[whittertwitter]

Nevermind, I can't write spoiler tags on my phone

And Eraqus is long gone after Xehanort did to his new body.

But if you want to know, ask Gold

I know what happened to Eraqus. I checked the secret ending of BBS, so unless something has changed since then, I presume that Terra being saved from his torment will also save Eraqus.

[goldpanner]

Mannn I have totally lost track of what's happening in here ;A;/
How are you guys all doing??

I saw an anti-anti-xion argument today. What do you think?

[gelandporn]

wow i could really use a PASSIONATE GOOGLE DOCS RANT to respond to that

[NocturnalMelody]

Mannn I have totally lost track of what's happening in here ;A;/
How are you guys all doing??

I saw an anti-anti-xion argument today. What do you think?

So excited for KH 3D but at the same time that means school starts again sooner

Sheesh...I don't even know where to start with this rant…

> Xion is totally pointless!
Calling bullshit on this one, 100%. Xion helps explain numerous questions that were left hanging by KH2, including
Why it takes a couple weeks for Namine to dismantle Sora’s memories and nearly a year to put them back

The reasons she lists could’ve been explained by other ways that DIDN’T involve a retcon character that is forgotten by everyone anyway. I never really questioned why it took longer for Namine to fix Sora’s memories than to destroy them…I just assumed that was because of Roxas’ existence and his need to return to Sora. Also, I thought of the memories like a puzzle – easy to wreck, complicated to piece together again. Xion just made things overly complicated, more than they needed to be.

Why, in part, Roxas realized that the Organization was not a place he wanted to be in (there were plenty of other factors in his decision too)

I think that the other factors in his decision are much more believable than because of Xion’s death and abuse by Saix. Nomura’s idea that Roxas left ‘because of a girl his age’ is just silly. After all, Riku said a very god reason in KH II to Sora himself “I think it’s because he really wanted to meet you.” Roxas wanted to know who he was, and he took it into his own hands to uncover the lies that were being told to him. He found himself fighting for people that he couldn’t even trust, and a best friend that was giving him no answers. Roxas realized he didn’t want to be in the Organization because of the lies and mistreatment, and the final straw with Axel keeping things from him.

Why Roxas is able to wield two Keyblades

Ven. Good enough reason without Xion.

Plus there’s numerous other tiny details that can allude to her existence. Yes, I understand that KH2 means she has to be retconned out of existence and out of memory. But just because all memories of her disappeared, doesn’t mean that the effects of her existence did, too. Look at Namine: Just because Sora’s memories of Castle Oblivion vanished doesn’t change what happened there.

Not to mention if we look at the situation in conjunction with re:coded (yes, another one of the hated KH handheld games), we’re reminded of the fact that in Kingdom Hearts, memories may vanish, but feelings do not - it’s the source of the final boss’ rage and pain. Doubtless it’ll come into play in the future too.
If Xion was pointless, Namine wouldn’t have put memories of her for Sora to find in the journal. If she was pointless, she wouldn’t be found in the secret ending of Birth by Sleep. If she was pointless, she wouldn’t be appearing in KH3D (and before you scream spoiler, check the promos, they’ve been out for weeks).

They’re kind of contradicting themselves here, because they’re arguing that Xion isn’t pointless because of all her appearances AFTER 358/2 Days. Of course the writers have to make it seem like she was there all along, KH II is the only piece of evidence that she was put there last minute, from Roxas’ dialogue to Axel before Deep Dive that doesn’t quite make sense, Riku telling Sora Roxas wanted to meet him, the Organization probably not having any CLUE what their evil plans were for a whole year.

> But she’s totally a Mary Sue!

There are at least two major problems with this argument, the first being the inherent bias against female characters, and the second being the ridiculously broad definition of the term “Mary Sue.”
Now before you scream Social Justice Warrior, consider honestly the fandom’s treatment of female characters in the KH series. And ask yourself, honestly, if Xion would get nearly the same kind of hate if she were a male character, for whatever reason. If the answer to that question is no, then that’s misogyny, or at least misogyny involved - hating a female character because she’s female. And if the answer is yes, then congratulations, you’re probably part of the minority.

*congratulates self* I’m not against hating male characters. I dislike Cloud, hate Sasuke, and they’re also considered fangirl and yaoi magnets. I would hate Xion just as much, if not more, if she was a guy. She’d be taking away Roxas’ spotlight even more, because then she’d basically be a ripoff of Roxas.

Xion is not perfect. She has plenty of character flaws, there are negative consequences for her actions (hell even her existence) that she has to deal with, and almost everything else that is most likely considered a “Sue” trait has a logical canon explanation, and is not just “because”. Roxas is drawn to her because Sora’s memories in him are reacting with Sora’s memories of Kairi in her (it’s explained in the novels), the latter of which explain why Xion looks like Kairi. Axel becomes friends with her initially because she’s friends with Roxas, but then begins to appreciate her in her own right over time, which is how plenty of normal friendships form.
Giving reasons- logical ones - for why a character is the way they are is one of the biggest differences between a true “Mary Sue” and a false one. And Days gives plenty of reasons.

The only reasons Days gives us are reasons to want to hold poor little Xion in our arms protectively like every other sexy character in the game and wipe away her tears. Her pitiful existence is the center of the ENTIRE game, which makes her a Sympathy Sue. She is created solely to get the audience to sympathize with her. The person making this argument refers back the novels which aren’t canon, the manga isn’t canon either (even though I really wish the manga was canon sometimes :3)

Roxas being drawn to her just because of Kairi is one thing – but he obsesses over her to the point where it’s irritating. He doesn’t have a single thought in his head throughout the whole game that doesn’t involve Xion, and this game was supposed to be about him questioning his OWN existence.

Then along comes this new character that robs all the potential development from everyone else. THAT’S Sue-ish.

Not to mention the fact that she goes between killing enemies in one hit and fainting only to be carried by the attractive male characters multiple times. I don’t care what the in-game canon reasons were. It’s silly. And pointless. Just…her fainting and Roxas constantly worrying and her losing her keyblade made for a boring plot. I don’t even see how this person thinks all of Days reasons behind Xion’s existence are so clear…they’re all very vague to me. They really didn’t even explain why she loses her keyblade in the game, I had to read it in an interview, and THAT’S not good.

> But she’s the 14th member of Organization XIII -how does that even work?

First of all, as my friend Kari pointed out, 7-11 is open 24 hours. Motel 6 does not cost six dollars. The First Bank of America on that street corner there is not necessarily the first one. Numbered titles/names do not necessarily mean anything. The Organization only had thirteen members as of the very beginning of Days - there’s no indication that they were called anything different prior to Roxas’ arrival.
Not to mention the fact that Xion is the 14th member is explained too. It is actually a plot device - and foreshadowing of something that Saix later states outright: Xion is never considered a proper member of the Organization, only a tool.

I guess I see what they’re doing here with the numbers and titles…but still. If she’s a clone and a tool it was pointless to give her a number. In fact I don’t even know what Xemnas was smoking during this whole game.

I can see his schedule now: Daytime – Sit in empty meeting room. Night – Preach to Kingdom Hearts OR if he’s feeling spontaneous, watch Roxas while he’s sleeping.

> But she gets in the way of Axel & Roxas/Roxas & Namine/etc.!

No. Just no. “Getting in the way” of your ship is one of the flimsiest reasons to hate another character. If your ship truly had canon backing, her existence wouldn’t be sinking it anyway. Sometimes your favorite ship is not canon, unfortunately, and given that Kingdom Hearts is primarily an action/adventure game about the power of friendship, the game’s creators do not have to cater to your romantic tastes. Go over to the Avatar: The Last Airbender fandom and talk to some Zutara fans. You’ll be in good company.

I know AkuRoku isn’t canon and I ship it anyway, but I also agree that hating Xion simply because she gets in the way of the yaoi is stupid. I hate her for all the reasons I’ve already said combined, and if there’s a person that got unfairly pushed out of the way, it’s Namine. She deserved to be the Kairi of the Axel and Roxas trio, if there HAD to be a trio (even though trios are cliché in this series now).

But she’s annoying/stupid/etc.!

Congratulations! You have an opinion! As we all remember from grade school, opinion is not fact. Just because you think she’s annoying does not make her a horrible character. It just means you don’t like her.

And Xion being a good, well-written character is also an opinion.

[whittertwitter]

Mannn I have totally lost track of what's happening in here ;A;/
How are you guys all doing??

I saw an anti-anti-xion argument today. What do you think?

Meh, can't complain. It's hotter than hell and I can't wait for KH3D to be released outside Japan so that everyone who's avoiding spoilers will come back.

As for that "argument"... Let's go through this bit-by-bit, shall we?

> Xion is totally pointless!
Calling bullshit on this one, 100%. Xion helps explain numerous questions that were left hanging by KH2, including

Oh, you mean the numerous questions that were already answered in-game, in the Secret Ansem Reports, or in post-game interviews?

Why it takes a couple weeks for Namine to dismantle Sora’s memories and nearly a year to put them back

Because it's a lot easier to tear something apart than it is to put it back together. Also, the memories were leaking out of Sora into Roxas to start with; there was absolutely no need to introduce a middleman.

Why, in part, Roxas realized that the Organization was not a place he wanted to be in (there were plenty of other factors in his decision too)

Roxas left because he was sick of the Organization in general and Axel in particular lying to him, he wanted to know why the Keyblade chose him, and he wanted to meet Sora. If you're one of those people that doesn't consider the interviews canon, I have bad news for you, because this question was answered in-game.

Why Roxas is able to wield two Keyblades

He's Sora's Nobody with Ven's heart. Presumably the Keyblade he starts out with is Ven's, considering Ven's been comatose for roughly a decade and therefore has no use for it. They could have just as easily had him gain the ability to use Sora's Keyblade after Sora is put in that deep sleep and unable to use it. Also, any Keyblade wielder can use the Synch Blade ability, as Riku can use it despite not being part of any body-surfing shenanigans.

Plus there’s numerous other tiny details that can allude to her existence. Yes, I understand that KH2 means she has to be retconned out of existence and out of memory. But just because all memories of her disappeared, doesn’t mean that the effects of her existence did, too. Look at Namine: Just because Sora’s memories of Castle Oblivion vanished doesn’t change what happened there.

Not to mention if we look at the situation in conjunction with re:coded (yes, another one of the hated KH handheld games), we’re reminded of the fact that in Kingdom Hearts, memories may vanish, but feelings do not - it’s the source of the final boss’ rage and pain. Doubtless it’ll come into play in the future too.
If Xion was pointless, Namine wouldn’t have put memories of her for Sora to find in the journal. If she was pointless, she wouldn’t be found in the secret ending of Birth by Sleep. If she was pointless, she wouldn’t be appearing in KH3D (and before you scream spoiler, check the promos, they’ve been out for weeks).

Notice that all the games you mentioned came out AFTER 358/2 days. Of course they had to put her in; her fans would have been asking "Where's Xion?" if they hadn't. Besides, her cameos were completely pointless. Those memories inside the journal could have been of Roxas or Ven. If she hadn't been included in 358/2 days from the start, it would have just been Roxas and Axel at the Clock Tower in the BBS secret ending. The scene where Namine transforms into her comes out of nowhere, makes no sense, and is completely unnecessary. It could have been Vanitas instead of Xion in the Awakening.

> But she’s totally a Mary Sue!

There are at least two major problems with this argument, the first being the inherent bias against female characters, and the second being the ridiculously broad definition of the term “Mary Sue.”
Now before you scream Social Justice Warrior, consider honestly the fandom’s treatment of female characters in the KH series. And ask yourself, honestly, if Xion would get nearly the same kind of hate if she were a male character, for whatever reason. If the answer to that question is no, then that’s misogyny, or at least misogyny involved - hating a female character because she’s female. And if the answer is yes, then congratulations, you’re probably part of the minority.

While I agree female characters are labelled "Mary Sue" in much the same way male characters are labelled "emo", it doesn't necessarily mean the allegation isn't true. She stole the spotlight of a game that was supposed to center around Roxas with the rest of the Organization as side characters. She also gets to have it all, being a Keyblade-wielding Action Girl in one scene and a Damsel in Distress comforted by the most popular characters in the next. So, because the fandom treated female characters badly in its early days, we aren't allowed to criticize female characters at all? Putting female characters on a pedestal just because they're female is as bad as bashing female characters just because they're female. Either way, you're judging them based on their sex rather than on their character. Personally, I'd dislike Xion just as much if she were male; my reasons for disliking Xion are the same as my reasons for HATING Genesis Rhapsodos from Crisis Core.

Xion is not perfect. She has plenty of character flaws, there are negative consequences for her actions (hell even her existence) that she has to deal with, and almost everything else that is most likely considered a “Sue” trait has a logical canon explanation, and is not just “because”. Roxas is drawn to her because Sora’s memories in him are reacting with Sora’s memories of Kairi in her (it’s explained in the novels), the latter of which explain why Xion looks like Kairi. Axel becomes friends with her initially because she’s friends with Roxas, but then begins to appreciate her in her own right over time, which is how plenty of normal friendships form.
Giving reasons- logical ones - for why a character is the way they are is one of the biggest differences between a true “Mary Sue” and a false one. And Days gives plenty of reasons.

Oh, really? I notice you didn't actually name any flaws in your argument. You want to know why? Because she doesn't have any. Everything bad that happens to her is due to other characters hating her and because she was doomed to begin with. She was created to inspire sympathy in the audience, and a very cheap sort of sympathy at that. Axel acts like a complete jerk toward her whenever Roxas isn't around; it's the only thing that actually makes me feel sympathy for Xion. She thinks he's her friend, but he only puts up with her because of Roxas; when Roxas isn't watching, Axel acts like an extra from Mean Girls. Also, the novels aren't canon.

> But she’s the 14th member of Organization XIII -how does that even work?

First of all, as my friend Kari pointed out, 7-11 is open 24 hours. Motel 6 does not cost six dollars. The First Bank of America on that street corner there is not necessarily the first one. Numbered titles/names do not necessarily mean anything. The Organization only had thirteen members as of the very beginning of Days - there’s no indication that they were called anything different prior to Roxas’ arrival.
Not to mention the fact that Xion is the 14th member is explained too. It is actually a plot device - and foreshadowing of something that Saix later states outright: Xion is never considered a proper member of the Organization, only a tool.

Organization XIII has that name for a very specific reason that is explained in KH3D. I won't go into because of spoilers, but the Organization's goal involved having thirteen members exactly, so the name reflects what they were working towards. The reason we make a such big deal about her being the fourteenth member of Organization XIII is because that was a VERY common type of self-insert before the release of 358/2 days, which raised warning flags in our minds.

> But she gets in the way of Axel & Roxas/Roxas & Namine/etc.!

No. Just no. “Getting in the way” of your ship is one of the flimsiest reasons to hate another character. If your ship truly had canon backing, her existence wouldn’t be sinking it anyway. Sometimes your favorite ship is not canon, unfortunately, and given that Kingdom Hearts is primarily an action/adventure game about the power of friendship, the game’s creators do not have to cater to your romantic tastes. Go over to the Avatar: The Last Airbender fandom and talk to some Zutara fans. You’ll be in good company.

How many Xion haters actually cite this as a reason for hating her? Not many. She isn't remotely a threat to either pairing. Love the bitchy dig at Zutara fans by the way; I can't stand that pairing myself, but you're just beating a dead horse.

But she’s annoying/stupid/etc.!

Congratulations! You have an opinion! As we all remember from grade school, opinion is not fact. Just because you think she’s annoying does not make her a horrible character. It just means you don’t like her.

Xion's more bland than annoying, really.

[Reika]

Ironic that the article has a 'fandumb' tag when it was a member of the fandumb who wrote it.
Meanwhile, yay for activity in this place! <3
/follows the crowd and picks apart the article

> Xion is totally pointless!
Calling bullshit on this one, 100%. Xion helps explain numerous questions that were left hanging by KH2, including

/brb loling forever
No-ho-ho she does NOT. xD

Why it takes a couple weeks for Namine to dismantle Sora’s memories and nearly a year to put them back

Namine was unsure she could even do it, I wasn't surprised it took so long. Not to mention KH2 pretty much stated that some of Sora's memories were leaking into Roxas (thus the reason for his dreams) and Namine couldn't complete the job without Roxas, who was a member of the Organization for almost the entirety of that year. I'm pretty sure most of us were able to piece that together.

Why, in part, Roxas realized that the Organization was not a place he wanted to be in (there were plenty of other factors in his decision too)

KH2 explained that, too~ Someone didn't watch the KH2 cutscenes when they played the game~ <3
Reason: Roxas wanted to know who he was and where he came from, information that the Org and his own best friend kept from him. Upon realizing that his best friend was essentially lying to him, Roxas got PO'd and left. He'd heard of Sora (either from the Org, from his dreams, or both), knew he was somehow connected to Sora and wanted to meet him. Even RIKU said that.

By the way, Roxas' reasons for leaving in Days is more confusing and idiotic than his strongly-implied reasons in KH2.

Why Roxas is able to wield two Keyblades

Days didn't explain that, an interview with the creator did! The implied cause in Days wasn't even the real cause. I believe the REAL cause of Roxas' duel wielding was because his feelings for Xion manifested a second Keyblade or some idiotic crap like that.

Besides, BBS could have easily explained that without Xion; one word: VEN. If you don't understand how that explains anything (which, judging by this article so far, wouldn't surprise me), I suggest you actually WATCH the cutscenes in BBS instead of skimming the script like I assume you did for KH2.

Plus there’s numerous other tiny details that can allude to her existence. Yes, I understand that KH2 means she has to be retconned out of existence and out of memory. But just because all memories of her disappeared, doesn’t mean that the effects of her existence did, too. Look at Namine: Just because Sora’s memories of Castle Oblivion vanished doesn’t change what happened there.

BIIIIIIIG difference, sweetie. Namine explained it in Days (seriously, DID you pay attention to the cutscenes?); Xion's existence was comprised of memories, so once she disappears, the memories, and thus her existence was erased. There ARE no memories of her left because THEY NO LONGER EXIST. When Xion disappeared, the memories of her poof'd out of existence.
Meanwhile, Namine and CO still existed - as did the memories of them - Sora just didn't remember it, though the memories are buried deep in his heart because they DO still exist. HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference.

Not to mention if we look at the situation in conjunction with re:coded (yes, another one of the hated KH handheld games), we’re reminded of the fact that in Kingdom Hearts, memories may vanish, but feelings do not - it’s the source of the final boss’ rage and pain. Doubtless it’ll come into play in the future too.
If Xion was pointless, Namine wouldn’t have put memories of her for Sora to find in the journal. If she was pointless, she wouldn’t be found in the secret ending of Birth by Sleep. If she was pointless, she wouldn’t be appearing in KH3D (and before you scream spoiler, check the promos, they’ve been out for weeks).

Then, O' Clever One, explain her point that I and the other Clubbers has not already refuted.

Now before you scream Social Justice Warrior, consider honestly the fandom’s treatment of female characters in the KH series. And ask yourself, honestly, if Xion would get nearly the same kind of hate if she were a male character, for whatever reason. If the answer to that question is no, then that’s misogyny, or at least misogyny involved - hating a female character because she’s female. And if the answer is yes, then congratulations, you’re probably part of the minority.

/also congratulates self
I disagree with the misogyny claim. There aren't a huge ton of females and the only one I've seen that's VERY hated (possibly more than Xion) is Kairi. Aqua is very well-liked, Namine I think is more liked than Kairi and possibly Xion, Olette was too inconsequential a character to have a fandom or hatedom, and I've no idea of Larxene's status. I think it merely SEEMS like misogyny because the amount of male characters greatly outnumbers the amount of female characters, so you see more love for the males than females.

Regarding Xion, I love her, but face it; she's a friggin' Sue.

Xion is not perfect.

(in rainbow dash voice) SHE KIND OF IS

She has plenty of character flaws, there are negative consequences for her actions (hell even her existence) that she has to deal with, and almost everything else that is most likely considered a “Sue” trait has a logical canon explanation, and is not just “because”. Roxas is drawn to her because Sora’s memories in him are reacting with Sora’s memories of Kairi in her (it’s explained in the novels), the latter of which explain why Xion looks like Kairi. Axel becomes friends with her initially because she’s friends with Roxas, but then begins to appreciate her in her own right over time, which is how plenty of normal friendships form.

There are negative consequences for her actions, but not in a way that makes her flawed. The negative consequences are due to her making selfless sacrifices for the sake of other people, which means they're not flaws. The only time her negative actions (like being a whiny little bitch) have negative consequences are the times Saix gets involved and those times don't count because he exists in that game to make Xion a more sympathetic character. Flaws are only flaws if they effect her negatively. Her 'flaws' did not do that. Her moping, for example, did not bring negative consequences. The only person who was rightfully annoyed by it was Saix, and like I said, he does not count. The people who SHOULD have been annoyed by it were her friends, and it never made them upset with her. They were just MORE concerned for her.

Also, novels are not canon.

> But she’s the 14th member of Organization XIII -how does that even work?
First of all, as my friend Kari pointed out, 7-11 is open 24 hours. Motel 6 does not cost six dollars. The First Bank of America on that street corner there is not necessarily the first one. Numbered titles/names do not necessarily mean anything. The Organization only had thirteen members as of the very beginning of Days - there’s no indication that they were called anything different prior to Roxas’ arrival.
Not to mention the fact that Xion is the 14th member is explained too. It is actually a plot device - and foreshadowing of something that Saix later states outright: Xion is never considered a proper member of the Organization, only a tool.

I think this is the only part of the article I agree with. Organization XIII wasn't a name that made sense, especially since they weren't expecting their 13th member (Roxas). This didn't get explained until KH3D.

> But she gets in the way of Axel & Roxas/Roxas & Namine/etc.!
No. Just no. “Getting in the way” of your ship is one of the flimsiest reasons to hate another character. If your ship truly had canon backing, her existence wouldn’t be sinking it anyway. Sometimes your favorite ship is not canon, unfortunately, and given that Kingdom Hearts is primarily an action/adventure game about the power of friendship, the game’s creators do not have to cater to your romantic tastes. Go over to the Avatar: The Last Airbender fandom and talk to some Zutara fans. You’ll be in good company.

Are there really THAT many people who dislike Xion for such a stupid reason? I don't think I've ever met one, and I used to investigate both sides of the fandom quite extensively.
I dunno, I just think the whole most-people-hate-Xion-because-of-shipping thing was just something the Xion fandumb exaggerated to excuse Xion haters as idiots.

> But she’s annoying/stupid/etc.!
Congratulations! You have an opinion! As we all remember from grade school, opinion is not fact. Just because you think she’s annoying does not make her a horrible character. It just means you don’t like her.

Congratulations! Your entire article was your opinion, not facts that should be used as an argumentative basis! Just because you think she's awesome does not make her an awesome character. It just means you like her.

[goldpanner]

Aww you guys <3 I feel home lol

wow i could really use a PASSIONATE GOOGLE DOCS RANT to respond to that

oh :P

this is something i wrote up in reply but couldn't be bothered to cause dramas by actually posting... guess i will post it here too!