Xehanort Plot Problem

[bladewarrior13]

You might be asking, "What is the problem with time travel?" Everything is wrong with time travel. Every since its conception back whenever there have been so many arguments about it whether for or against it. Now before I explain the problem with Xehanort time traveling let me go on and say that I love the KH series and story and will still buy the game and turn a blind eye to this annoying concept. Alright, lets begin. Ansem, Seeker of Darkness (I'm gonna just call him "Ansem" with the quotes from now on), time travels back to the time of Young Xehanort and gives him the power of time travel to recruit different incarnations of himself to form a group of 13 Darknesses. Time traveling to the past I don't mind because that means you are going back to a time where things have already happened and people already exist such Ansem finding Young Xehanort because Young Xehanort already exists there. Here comes the issue. Xehanort time travels around and finally ends up in the present with 11 other versions of himself plus himself equals 12 (they were gonna use Sora as the 13th). If Young Xehanort is existing in the present now; then, how is Master Xehanort (who is of course older than his younger self), "Ansem", and Xemnas all there? If Young Xehanort is in the present then he wouldn't be a Master yet and "Ansem" and Xemnas wouldn't even exist. Plus, Braig and Isa would have never met him and conspired with him so they wouldn't be there either because "Ansem" never said recruit them. And I bet many of the other forms of himself wouldn't be there either. None of the events in the entire KH series would have ever happened if Young Xehanort time traveled like this. I hope this thread was informative and if you want to flame, flame away. In my next thread, I will cover possible other incarnations of Xehanort who could be possible members of the New Organization.

[Venitas]

SPOILERS YOU diddlyING MORON CHANGE THE TITLE NOW

[lycorismoon29]

GOD diddlyING DAMNIT

[Izayoi]

Young Master Xehanort is from an alternative timeline made from "Ansem" granting him his powers. Therefore, anything after that point is completely different than what happens in the plot of KH and is therefore irrelevant.

I think so at least idk if not I don't know how anything makes sense.

[Golden Yak]

The time travel problem is resolved by sending everyone back to the time they were taken from, which Young Xehanort mentions will happen.

[Hillboy]

The time travel problem is resolved by sending everyone back to the time they were taken from, which Young Xehanort mentions will happen.

This, we are unsure how, but they will all be together again to fight. We just don't know how it will play out

[lycorismoon29]

Some deus ex machina thing, I'm sure.

[Memory Master]

There are no alternate timelines in KH. There is only one timeline.

The rules of time travel in KH work like this:

1. You must discard your body and become and existence only of the heart (Which XH was before he took Riku's body)

2. You may only travel in one direction in time. Either forward into the future or backwards into the past (Because of this XH himself could not gather the forms from the past because he would have had to move to the past and then from a past point move into the future which would be moving two ways and that is forbidden. Which brings us to the next rule)

3. It appears a person with a physical body can time travel if they recieve the ability from another time traveler (To solve the above mentioned problem XH had, he decided to go back to a point in time before he ever became a Keyblade Wielder (A.K.A Young Xehanort) and gave Young Xehanort the power to time travel so he could move forward in time and pick up every form of Xehanort through out time, eventually bringing the forms to the time of KH3D.

4. You cannot interfere or change the events of past.

5. When you time travel you must eventually return to your proper place in time and it seems you also lose your memories of the things you did during your time travel (All the forms of Xehanort in KH3D that were brought from the past had to return to the proper place in time, but somehow they will be called back to the present in KH3 to form the X-Blade according to MX's plan. Though they lose their memories of the time travel Young Xehanort seems to suggest his calling to gather again to form the X-Blade will be etched into his heart. This probably has something to do with the whole "Memories can be forgotten but never erased" rule in the series.)

6. You can only time travel to points in time where you have existed or will exist. (Meaning Xehanort cannot travel to any point in time before he himself existed. I'm not sure how this works with the future since the future should be constantly changing depending on actions taking place in the present)

I think that covers all the rules we know so far about time travel in KH.

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However I completely agree that the whole time travel thing shouldn't have been put in the story, or at least not implimented in the way it was. I prefer for time travel to not be put in a story simply because it is very difficult to actually do right in a story. If time travel is going to be used I prefer the non-tangible time travel concept which is you can't physically time travel or interact with another time period, but instead you time travel as a non-tangible being that simply acts as an inivisible observer to the events of whatever time period you are in.

I also think that you should only be able to travel to the past since the future should be ever changing according to the actions taking place in the present.

Although I do like the rule in KH where you can only travel to points in time where you exist. Thus effectively making your past self a type of portal to gain access to that point in time. That keeps a person from traveling too far into the past and helps prevents MX from actually traveling to the time period of the first Keyblade War.
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So if I had to use time travel in the series, I would have had XH in an invisible intangible form travel back in time to observe events of that point period that his past physical self of that time could not have possibly observed, or to spy on the past conversations and actions of his enemies (Like observing and listening on Mickey and Yen Sid's conversations in the past so he could predict their next move). The main reason for the time travel would have been to somehow learn the true method for how to X-Blade is forged (Since the Ventus - Vanitas attempt didn't forge a complete X-Blade)

This would have required Young Xehanort's role and powers to be changed of course, so I would have made him MX's first nobody that was forged when he discarded his body to take over Terra in BBS. To explain why he looks young instead of old, I would have said MX left a piece of his heart with YMX that only contained memories of his youth and perhaps the plans to forge the X-Blade in the future.
I would have given YMX the power of sleep to explain why some worlds were trapped in sleep in KH3D (So the dream worlds could be used as place where he and the other Xehanort's could plot without Yen Sid being able to spy. Also as a trap to lure Sora and Riku later on to make them the final vessels for the 13 seekers of darkness since he knew goody two shoes Yen Sid would send atleast Sora in the dream worlds to awaken the sleeping worlds)

I also may have called YMX "Another" (Anagram of "Xehanort" but without the X to show his contrast to the the members of the first Organization. Would also explain why the word "Another" was part of the password Xemnas uses to access the Chamber of Repose in Radiant Gardens)

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And finally to explain how Xemnas and XH could coexist with MX and Terra in KH3D without using time travel. The artificial KH in KH2 was being encoding with Ansem the Wise's machine but it blew up. That explosion sent Ansem into the dark realm without memories and destroyed the fragment of XH that was left in Riku's heart. Well since Ansem the Wise did say anything could happen when his machine blew up, then i would have exploited that moment like hell. In other words I would have said that instead of the explosion destroying the fragment of XH in Riku, I would have said the explosion expelled the fragment of XH and actually empowered it so it became a full heart again and thus make a new XH from that fragment (While the majority of XH that was destroyed in KH1 went to make MX and Terra whole)

Then we have Xemnas who absorbed the remains of the artificial KH for the final battle of KH2. Okay I would have said that because Xemnas absorbed the artificial KH, even though his body split into two so part of his body went to Terra's heart to restore him and another part of his body went to MX's heart to restore him, thanks to having absorbed the artificial KH Xemnas' own heart was able to retain part of his body resulting in Xemnas surviving as his own being as well but also very weakened and having to retreat to the realm of sleep with "Another" to heal before KH3D starts. (The whole body split thing to restore Terra and Xemnas is basically a reverse of how Roxas and Namine were born since his body split to create two nobodies. When Xemnas was destroyed his body split because he had to restore two hearts to their status as whole beings (Terra and MX), but thanks to the artificial KH's power he was able to maintain his own exisence though he was weakened and needed care from "Another" who this whole time has been sneaking around pulling some strings to ensure he would have back up members ready in case the original Organization XIII failed to be of use for MX's plan to make the X-Blade.)

Thus allowing Xemnas and XH to exist alongside Terra and MX in KH3D without needing time travel.

[billyzanesucks]

I also think that you should only be able to travel to the past since the future
should be ever changing according to the actions taking place in the present.

One could argue that, for a person from that time's future to come to that time's present, that path would have to have been inevitable.

[Marx15]

One could argue that, for a person from that time's future to come to that time's present, that path would have to have been inevitable.

Fate is never left to chance.....

Meaning the timeline is set in stone, so it is inevitable......


So it was written, so shall it be done.

[mooglekupor]

Wow I thought I was the only one who didn't like the time travelling concept at all.
And although I agree with you, we lack some information about how all the incarnations of Xehanort could ve been in one place, so I guess we'll just have to wait for an answer. Oh boy, I have a bad feeling about this...

[Eraser Rain]

I also think that you should only be able to travel to the past since the future should be ever changing according to the actions taking place in the present.

I think that's actually how time travel works in the KH universe (well, being able to travel to the past and present). When YMX said that "everything up until today was planned," you could interpret that as YMX being unable to time travel to the future. That's probably because the future doesn't exist yet at whatever point in the present.

[Memory Master]

I think that's actually how time travel works in the KH universe (well, being able to travel to the past and present). When YMX said that "everything up until today was planned," you could interpret that as YMX being unable to time travel to the future. That's probably because the future doesn't exist yet at whatever point in the present.

Ya know I never looked at that quote in that way. I hope that is actually what he meant. This is why I can't wait for the english version so we can get official translations, because alot of stuff in Japanese can have different meanings than what it may have in english.

[billyzanesucks]

Time is only a matter of perspective. Today is yesterday's tomorrow. Transcending into the future is really no different from accelerating the rest of the world, or maybe being frozen and then thawed at a certain point in time by the universal microwave. You could say that theoretical probability has no place in anything. That's why I like KH's form of time travel. Nothing's left to chance.

[Memory Master]

Time is only a matter of perspective. Today is yesterday's tomorrow. Transcending into the future is really no different from accelerating the rest of the world, or maybe being frozen and then thawed at a certain point in time by the universal microwave. You could say that theoretical probability has no place in anything. That's why I like KH's form of time travel. Nothing's left to chance.

That would mean the time line is already preset. All the events that will happen have already been predetermined. That would mean the time line was already drawn out from the begining of the KH universe and therefore would suggest someone had to have preset the events. Thus suggesting there is a greater intelligence behind the KH universe and it's timeline. Perhaps even KH itself is this intelligence.
Plus it means it's already determined if Sora beats Xehanort or not. However Xehanort said what lies beyond the point of KH3D is an unseen world which to me suggest you can't travel into the future in KH.

But in a story like KH I would prefer to think the future hasn't been written yet and can always change. Like an unfinished book where the current page that is being written is the present and pages that were writen before it is this past and since those pages have already been written they can't be changed. Where as the future is a blank page only to be shaped and written based on what is being written on the current page which is the present. As such the future would be constantly changing thus making it impossible to travel to the future because there is no set future.