RE: Critique

[Total Darkness]

Originally Posted by Sparkle Motion

So, with the sudden influx of newer members, the Graphics section has been taking some hits. There are several members who're gallivanting around this section who can't give acceptable critique. So, this isn't to put them down, rather, it's to help them learn what acceptable critique is.


Unacceptable Critique:



Nothing is really said here. it's spam, plain and simple. We need a LOT less of this. If you have nothing worthwhile to say, don't post at all, please.

Destructive Criticism:



These types of posts are what's killing this section. It's rude, stupid, arrogant, and completely unneeded. It's not even critique, it's an outright attack on the person's work.

Acceptable Critique:



This is borderline acceptable. It's blunt, but it does critique the other person's artwork, but only barely. While this is fine, we'll want more of the next example.

Great Critique:





These are perfect. They're not sugar-coated, but at the same time they're not attacking the piece. It goes in-depth on the tag, giving them tips and advice on what to do, and they keep their critique on a lighter tone.


So come on guys, what we need is better critique. If you can all remember to put some tact to your posts, then we'll see this sub-forum flourish like it was a year or two ago.

Thank God. If you cannot post right don't even post at all, ~_~". People should really read this.

[Dogenzaka]

Or if you don't like the critique, you could just ignore it.
There's no right or wrong opinion.

[???]

Can't believe I didn't see this thread before...

Text is horrible, stock is horrible, brushing or smudging or whatever you did is horrible, the whole thing is horribly boring. What program did you use to make this?

Yep, me being an idiot, that was the only, and last time I will give destructive criticism. Because, I agree, it's unnacceptable.

[♥]

Um, let me clear something up.

This thread isn't about sugarcoating everything. People are taking this whole thing and mis-interpreting it, like here:
CLICK

If you were to sugarcoat anything, it would defeat the purpose. The critique there wasn't harsh, but it was toeing the line.

Stop getting your panties in a bunch when someone doesn't like your artwork; grow up and learn to deal.

[Ken]

Originally Posted by Sparkle Motion

Um, let me clear something up.

This thread isn't about sugarcoating everything. People are taking this whole thing and mis-interpreting it, like here:
CLICK

If you were to sugarcoat anything, it would defeat the purpose. The critique there wasn't harsh, but it was toeing the line.

Stop getting your panties in a bunch when someone doesn't like your artwork; grow up and learn to deal.

Ya. Jamal didn't say it sucked. He just said he didn't like it. There are times ACTUAL critiques in real life will say nothing except for horrible things about what you do. If you can't take it, don't do it. That wasn't harsh, but like Ray said, it was borderline.

[C4E]

bump for this thread, and maybe someone who knows quote trees can redo that lol

[Ken]

Originally Posted by Sparkle Motion

So, with the sudden influx of newer members, the Graphics section has been taking some hits. There are several members who're gallivanting around this section who can't give acceptable critique. So, this isn't to put them down, rather, it's to help them learn what acceptable critique is.


Unacceptable Critique:

Nothing is really said here. it's spam, plain and simple. We need a LOT less of this. If you have nothing worthwhile to say, don't post at all, please.

Destructive Criticism:

These types of posts are what's killing this section. It's rude, stupid, arrogant, and completely unneeded. It's not even critique, it's an outright attack on the person's work.

Acceptable Critique:

This is borderline acceptable. It's blunt, but it does critique the other person's artwork, but only barely. While this is fine, we'll want more of the next example.

Great Critique:

These are perfect. They're not sugar-coated, but at the same time they're not attacking the piece. It goes in-depth on the tag, giving them tips and advice on what to do, and they keep their critique on a lighter tone.


So come on guys, what we need is better critique. If you can all remember to put some tact to your posts, then we'll see this sub-forum flourish like it was a year or two ago.

Am I doin it rite?

[C4E]

lol hooray for jay chou. xD

[Prodigy]

I was going to be ALL over that thread, and then this weekend I got extremely sidetracked with work, spiderman 3, golf, friends, and seeing bands like fuel and collective soul and papa roach.
---
[This isn't to continue an argument, but to teach the less-experienced on how to handle these things]

Yes. I understand this is long. But PLEASE read it. This needs to be known.

Anyways- Harsh critique isn't necessarily bad. So even if you do class it as such, it wouldn't be that important. CME just is emotional as hell and any time someone says something demeaning about her tags she just gives up and says she sucks and blah blah blah or runs to what someone else said, such as this thread, for her defense.

Originally Posted by CME

thank you for pointing out every single thing wrong and not anything that's decent.

So he said stuff was wrong, and not in all of it, but he gave you some insight on how to improve. You can't be a smartass to his comment without looking like a douchebag yourself.

Then onto Frono. Frono, you don't know your stuff. Honestly, you overreacted probably because you're friends with CME. Perhaps you did what you thought was right, but your visions on evasive action and also you definitions on flaming and gfx reply rules are seriously warped.

-----Let's get it straight. Seriously, now. It's extremely important. Harsh critique is NOT flaming, nor is it destructive criticism. Destructive criticism is flaming. Destructive is just going out there and saying it sucks. Tux gave a fine example of it. ((Sorry, Ray, I'll always call ya Tux. XD))
~~Harsh critique is not by any means being nice, hence the harsh. But it is not going out there and say it just plain sucks go kill urself pl0x. What it does do is that it is very honest and direct, with absolutely no sugarcoating, but it does give a very real analysis. It may not be much, though sometimes it may be, but there is also at least a way given to improve it. Saying "the blending is not good" is not as informative as it could be, and yes, "harsh", but if you can't figure out after that that you need to work on blending, god have mercy on your soul.. And not everyone has to put the last detail on it. It's CME's tag and she should be creative enough to fix it on her own and not rely on the far-overdone comments to do it. He also mentioned that she should work on the colors, which, in any circumstance has always been a reasonable answer. The fact that he did not mention exactly how she should go about it, but at least that she should does not entitle it to be considered bad critique.

Fro, you were trying to be a badass mod here:

Originally Posted by Frono

Then say it in a nicer way instead of blantly saying it sucks. Then, after saying it in a nicer way instead of saying everything is just bad, tell her how to fix it. You said many problems, and gave only one possible thing for her to work off of: "...Add some more color".

That falls under just plain bad critique. Tell what colors could be done. Or, tell a possible way to fix this blurriness problem. Tell her how to blend.

Now, go read that thread CME posted religiously. Don't post again until you have it memorized, mkay?

EDIT: Oh trust me, you surpased my thinking your a smartass. Because if your not trying to be one, its surely how you're coming off.

It just turned you into an ignorant ****head. Foremost, he said to add more of the dark red that was going on, not just some color to it- he did said what color. READ and don't just look at it for half a second and side with CME automatically because you're bestest pals. Take your job seriously, man. And you wanted to be cool because you're ordering him around and put ", mkay?" at the end. NO. Don't even go there. That only feeds the hostility to ANYONE. Mod or otherwise. He had a right to say what he said afterwards, though, yes, it could have been somewhat less arrogant. And then saying he's a smartass. You're being the smartass and setting a pretty shitty example for all the members who look up to mods like you.

Jamal's next post was yes, arrogant, but still in line.

Originally Posted by Frono

What your example was is that basic same thing gets different consiquences. No, they don't. Normally, they would A) Get deleted B) Get a warning or C) Get banned for three days. It would no longer be considered flaming if you would just give tips or suggestions as to how to improve!

I concur with most of what you said for the unquoted in this particular post, except that saying he was out of line. For what is quoted, you can't really go from warning or deleted post to a ban for what he said. And flaming is flaming. Whether you try to cover it up with tips or sugarcoat it with niceties, flaming is obvious. You're saying it could go like this..
---" HEY U SUUUCK AT GFX0rz GET A GRIP MAN YOU BLOOWW ITS TERRIBLE IN EVERY WAY LOOK AT THAT RED AND GREEN EWWW STFU AND NEVER CUM AGAIN OR EVER OPEN PHOTOSHOP GO SLI7 UR WR1S7Z pl0x!!!122

but try a better quality render and get flow like this: [/gives link to flow image]"

See... that just doesn't work. Was I overboard? You might say so, but if I'm not you'll never see what someone could interpret it as. And yes, that has happened before.

Jamal, in all seriousness, was at no point out of line. Whether or not you believe he was at least on the line, he was definitely not out of it at any time. The point where jamal may be questionable was after fro said jamal had surpassed his thinking of a smartass and jamal said fro had was being narrow-minded. That was the only real post, and that was not out of line. Grow up, guys.

EDIT: Don't forget- If someone asks for harsh critique. They can have it. If they want it, give it to them. It IS allowed. That comment by Frono was extremely stupid. I'm sorry, Fro, but it was.

[C4E]

Agreed.
And applause for diesel.

[♥]

Originally Posted by Diesel

I was going to be ALL over that thread, and then this weekend I got extremely sidetracked with work, spiderman 3, golf, friends, and seeing bands like fuel and collective soul and papa roach.
---
[This isn't to continue an argument, but to teach the less-experienced on how to handle these things]

Yes. I understand this is long. But PLEASE read it. This needs to be known.

Anyways- Harsh critique isn't necessarily bad. So even if you do class it as such, it wouldn't be that important. CME just is emotional as hell and any time someone says something demeaning about her tags she just gives up and says she sucks and blah blah blah or runs to what someone else said, such as this thread, for her defense.


So he said stuff was wrong, and not in all of it, but he gave you some insight on how to improve. You can't be a smartass to his comment without looking like a douchebag yourself.

Then onto Frono. Frono, you don't know your stuff. Honestly, you overreacted probably because you're friends with CME. Perhaps you did what you thought was right, but your visions on evasive action and also you definitions on flaming and gfx reply rules are seriously warped.

-----Let's get it straight. Seriously, now. It's extremely important. Harsh critique is NOT flaming, nor is it destructive criticism. Destructive criticism is flaming. Destructive is just going out there and saying it sucks. Tux gave a fine example of it. ((Sorry, Ray, I'll always call ya Tux. XD))
~~Harsh critique is not by any means being nice, hence the harsh. But it is not going out there and say it just plain sucks go kill urself pl0x. What it does do is that it is very honest and direct, with absolutely no sugarcoating, but it does give a very real analysis. It may not be much, though sometimes it may be, but there is also at least a way given to improve it. Saying "the blending is not good" is not as informative as it could be, and yes, "harsh", but if you can't figure out after that that you need to work on blending, god have mercy on your soul.. And not everyone has to put the last detail on it. It's CME's tag and she should be creative enough to fix it on her own and not rely on the far-overdone comments to do it. He also mentioned that she should work on the colors, which, in any circumstance has always been a reasonable answer. The fact that he did not mention exactly how she should go about it, but at least that she should does not entitle it to be considered bad critique.

Fro, you were trying to be a badass mod here:

It just turned you into an ignorant ****head. Foremost, he said to add more of the dark red that was going on, not just some color to it- he did said what color. READ and don't just look at it for half a second and side with CME automatically because you're bestest pals. Take your job seriously, man. And you wanted to be cool because you're ordering him around and put ", mkay?" at the end. NO. Don't even go there. That only feeds the hostility to ANYONE. Mod or otherwise. He had a right to say what he said afterwards, though, yes, it could have been somewhat less arrogant. And then saying he's a smartass. You're being the smartass and setting a pretty shitty example for all the members who look up to mods like you.

Jamal's next post was yes, arrogant, but still in line.


I concur with most of what you said for the unquoted in this particular post, except that saying he was out of line. For what is quoted, you can't really go from warning or deleted post to a ban for what he said. And flaming is flaming. Whether you try to cover it up with tips or sugarcoat it with niceties, flaming is obvious. You're saying it could go like this..
---" HEY U SUUUCK AT GFX0rz GET A GRIP MAN YOU BLOOWW ITS TERRIBLE IN EVERY WAY LOOK AT THAT RED AND GREEN EWWW STFU AND NEVER CUM AGAIN OR EVER OPEN PHOTOSHOP GO SLI7 UR WR1S7Z pl0x!!!122

but try a better quality render and get flow like this: [/gives link to flow image]"

See... that just doesn't work. Was I overboard? You might say so, but if I'm not you'll never see what someone could interpret it as. And yes, that has happened before.

Jamal, in all seriousness, was at no point out of line. Whether or not you believe he was at least on the line, he was definitely not out of it at any time. The point where jamal may be questionable was after fro said jamal had surpassed his thinking of a smartass and jamal said fro had was being narrow-minded. That was the only real post, and that was not out of line. Grow up, guys.

EDIT: Don't forget- If someone asks for harsh critique. They can have it. If they want it, give it to them. It IS allowed. That comment by Frono was extremely stupid. I'm sorry, Fro, but it was.

Oh hey Corey, how've you been?

And yes, I've been meaning to post the same message, I just could never think of a way to put it that wouldn't get me banned. :\
<333

[Ryu]

The thing about Frono and Jamal has been discussed by the staff, and we all believe Frono went out of line. What CME's reasons are for some of the posts she makes is another subject, so I won't delve into that, but we know Frono did a stupid thing.

Though, let's drop it here, god knows everyone who posted here did something stupid on this forum, so let's not make a bigger deal out of it than it is.

[Prodigy]

I have definitely done stupid things here. I don't at any time feel like I haven't. But god knows, when it comes to gfx, there's something I actually know a lot about and can teach others.
Yeah, I continued it, but I couldn't let it go w/o discussing why it went over wrong.

On a lighter note, I'm doing pretty well, Ray. And you? Haha.. get on msn or something, soon..

[♥]

Originally Posted by Diesel

I have definitely done stupid things here. I don't at any time feel like I haven't. But god knows, when it comes to gfx, there's something I actually know a lot about and can teach others.
Yeah, I continued it, but I couldn't let it go w/o discussing why it went over wrong.

On a lighter note, I'm doing pretty well, Ray. And you? Haha.. get on msn or something, soon..

Eh, I've been trying to get this section back to what it was back in the old days yo : (
The process has involved long hours of thinking and tutorial making. I've exhausted every idea possible, but it seems that some people just don't want to try to contribute.

Also, you're not on MSN. Sad panda, </3, etc.

[C4E]

Bumpage.

Consider this text a filler.