Please Read and Vote (In that order)

[Raeneth]

Alright, since heavy duty demo work is underway, I'd like to know something from you guys before getting way too far in where backtracking is nearly impossible.

The topic at hand: Fire versus Fira.

Situation: You will be given arts via NPC in this game. There is no Arcane requirement for any spells.

Problem: A player has Fire, and is currently about to get Fira. (this goes for any and all magics, but I'm using Fire since it's the easiest to type.)

Should that player lose the ability to cast Fire and have it replaced (upgraded) with Fira?
Should that player gain the ability to cast Fira and be able to cast Fire and Fira at the same time?

What do you all in the Inferno community and outside of the community think?
Spells evolving, or Spell inventory increasing as your skill set increases?

I personally feel that having the ability to cast a low level cheap MP (it'll be cheap by the time you can cast Fira) is beneficial to a mage. Please read, vote, and post. If you don't I'll just have to make a decision, and I don't want to hear complaining about it :3

Also, if you have a better suggestion, NOW is the time to voice it.

[startaex]

o_O No bye-bye to Fire :P i think its better if anyone can use both...=D

[Avalon]

I would like it if we had both Fire and Fira. Reason? Well, think of it this way. If are in a battle and you can't restore MP or have little left with no Ethers, and you have 7 MP left. Fire costs 5 mp and Fira costs 15. You can't cast Fira since you don't have enough MP. But you do have enough to cast Fire. Which may or may not kill the opponent. And as we go on with Fira and Firaga. Firaga and Fire will have a way different base damage and MP cost. Using fire when Firaga is out, wouldn't really be an all that damaging spell if Magic is capped. But still, Only have firaga to cast and it cost 30. Where Fire costs 5 MP. You could get 6 casts off fire with that... so yea... Thats just one reason why I wouldn't want spells to evolve.

Another reason would be the elemental system. If all I know about it is true. I'd rather use a low MP cost fire element spell, then I higher MP cost one. It would be easier to master the elements(in a way) if I could train with the lower versions of the spells.

I really never liked the evolving magic either. If someone makes a tourney or there's something were we have to use chapter 1 stats or something to that degree. No one could use magic... since, They would only have Ra's or higher. You couldn't use magic.


For me, I personally would like to have all spells in my inventory. Fire, Fira, Firaga and so on with other spells. I wouldn't feel... like a mage if I didn't have them really. I would also like to make cast more spells in a battle compared to cast one that costs more and can do more damage. Plus, when we get Fira. It will be a little costly to cast it a lot. Having the weaker version of the spell to cast would come in handy till we could level up more or get better equipment for MP.

Thats just my opinion on it all.

[Αzerin]

I'd rather just have my spell inventory increase. For one, I like sets and collecting things, but as well, it indeed has more of a mage feel as Kai said. As for actual benefits, yea, it helps out to have lower spells when it comes to MP cost and how many casts I can get off. Plus, if I'm just revisiting a chapter with low level and health heartless, I don't need really strong spells. Not to mention if you need lower spells for tourneys (which I would have never thought of without it being said.)

[Avalon]

Well it seems as if everyone has voted for having the spells added and not replacing them. I do like that the RPG team did let the people get a choice and let them pick what they wanted. Many RPG teams just do whatever they want to. It's nice to see a team that lets the people decide.

[drmasterzero]

I voted other

well for me personally i would like the spells added but sorted under the its type and lvl with the newest upgrade at the end, not like the current rpg where when u add a new spell it goes 2 the bottom and is an entire mess heres an example:

Current Order
Fire, Blizzara, Protect, Thunder etc..

The Order i suggested

Black Arts
___________________________________Spell Description LVL SCAN Link
Fire
Fira
Firaga

Blizzard
Blizzara
Blizzaga

at least thats how i see it, its got a Final Fantasy XII style 2 it

[bizness86]

[Other (Post Suggestion)]

Kaizer just says every possible point that someone could make after reading the initial post. I finished reading, raring to reply, and lo and effin' behold...! Whenever I get the chance to rep him again, I will (hopefully I can remember).

Yes, the lower level should stay. The reason why Kingdom Hearts magic was replaced upon upgrade was because:

1. characters' MP amounts barely increased throughout the entire game, and
2. MP costs remained the same with each upgrade.

So being that most favor keeping low tier magic, are people going to be able to attain higher tier magic without having its lower tier anticipant? Say, my character, a well-established monk, gets to "Chapter 2" of the game knowing no magic at all, but decides that he wants to learn a decent Thunder element spell to stand a chance against a boss. Can he learn Thundara (if he didn't want to learn a Thunder sleight), or will we deny him of his magic needs?!

If so, I would actually be fair to every party; those who have previously acquired Thunder have had ample time to develop their Thunder Affinity while those who recently acquired the higher level Thundara without obtaining Thunder will have to work if they really want to build a Thunder Affinity. In short, people who care about building affinity will work through the tiers, while those who just need a decent attack will be able to attain a higher tier spell that is on par with the level of the player. Wouldn't hurt.

[TheJudicer]

Could you not have the same MP costs, but upgrade the magic?

It would make more sense in a mage way.

In example;

A mage knows a basic fire spell, after using that spell he becomes proficient in it. It takes just as much energy to cast the spell, but it's effect is increased, seeing as the mage in question knows who best to use it.

I'd say that Magic evolves, but the MP cost stays the same, to show how powerful a mage you actually are, not how many spells you know.

[Griever!]

Well I can tell you from a mage perspective about the mp thing since I was mainly a mage :3


If that were to happen we would be overly strong in an incredibly cheap way. Being able to cast a thundaga spell it costing only 10 mp? and I have 200 mp?

where is the justice for the STR users .___.
The main reason for the mp rate to go up is so there is a balance. This is why we have the right to keep thunder, thundara, thundaga that way we can choose whether or not we want to use a pwerful spell and take the mp cost of it or if we want to play it safe and use a thundara spell...

It not only lets you choose your damage but it keeps the balance of power in check. It doesn't make mages so overly powerful it's ridiculous you know?

[Igshar]

Every time all the time I'll say the same exact thing. Upgrade and replace, not increase storage. Yes, I read the whole thread, and no, I was not swayed.

Here's how I see it... You'll start off with like 25-ish MP casting a 10 MP Fire spell in chapter 1 for example. You'll have your Robes and AP and Rods increasing that number to around something like 100-ish in Chapter 1. If not, 10 MP is way too much for first tier spells, honestly... Need at least 10 casts for it to be effective >> But I digress...

By the time you get Fira, it will probably be chapter 2-3, I'd rather see it come in chapter 3 >>

By this time, let's say you enter the chapter at level 30... I'm assuming we'll be having something like 2 AP per level (basing off of KHM >_> ) and get +5 MP per AP. This allows people to at least put 10 points on MP and have a nice base of 75 without sacrificing any other stats, and that's not taking into account the equipment which will most likely be able to boost that to a not-so-shabby 200-ish MP. Now, if Fira were to even cost 20 MP, it's the exact same thing as casting Fire was back in chapter 1... There's no REASON to ever cast the weaker, lower-MP-cost spell when it could have a base of like... 15 while Fira, being out 2 chapters later, could have a base of 40-50. I don't see how getting the spell replaced would be such an end-all to people. Tournaments which make you only use Ch. 1 stuff are usually not worth joining anyway, by the way, unless they're Mod-run. If that were the case, they wouldn't force players to use lower-level abilities...

I mean, the RPG Mods are far from stupid. If your old spell gets replaced by the old one, the MP cost to MP value ratio with the new spell will most likely be identical to what it was when you got the old one. I don't see a reason to keep the old spells. Of course, with this Inferno, where you guys seem to want to make everyone have as many possible choices as possible, keeping the old spells is certainly the way to go.

[Avalon]

^ Just to say something to that.

One real reason I want them to stay and not just get replaced is if I want to replay certain areas. Or just go back thru an area. If I have Ra spells when I had basic spells. I really couldn't go back thru and play it again. I did that with Chapter 1 of this inferno when chapter 2 was out. I lowered my stats to a level 40 player, used chapter 1 equips, and chapter 1 magic only. Now, if I couldn't use the old magic that was around at the time. I could easily kill anything with ra's or even Aga's if we reached that high. Nor would I really be able to use the spells either, MP cost would be a bit much. As well, I don't really see a reason as to why they need to be replaced. Only things being said are that you don't need to have the weaker ones when you have the stronger version of it.

[Xuan]

One of the weakness of not replacing the magic is that there would be like, so many slots of spells?

Perhaps we should do it this way? For example, if Fira is upgraded to Firaga, then Firaga and Fira is kept whereas Fire is deleted?

While I was playing Sonic RPG, I come to realise that difference between MP is extremely important. Miscalculation and it's GG.

Yeah, we should keep Fire at least.

[#5 Lexaeus]

My thoughts...:idea: *edited*

Based on my previous idea (only if its possible) have physical and mixed style arcs replace the lower tier and mystic use inventory. I think this would work if the inferno doesn't allow you to receive a copy spell if its given to you by an npc and if users who had already trained mystic style arcs wouldn't lose their inventory to training other arcs that use replacement of lower tiers.

Old Idea
If each arc has availability to learn the magical arts then this is how I feel that they should be able to.
This seems it might help keep things balanced early but not later on, but if your willing to spend so
much time in one area you should be rewarded.
(This is just an example since these are categories and not really arcs themselves)

Mixed -A system like Kingdom Hearts II, replacing the lower spells and mp costs remaining the same.
Mystic -All spells are kept in inventory and mp costs are smaller than that of mixed arc.
Physical - Lower spells are replaced and mp costs are higher than that of mixed arc.

It means a lot of work to do this or something or the sort. To have to redo a spell so many times for
each arc that has it is crazy.
You can make each arc a different strength spell, but of course that means more work.
If only one or two of the three can learn magic stuff then I'm all in for inventory.

[TheJudicer]

Originally Posted by Griever!

Well I can tell you from a mage perspective about the mp thing since I was mainly a mage :3


If that were to happen we would be overly strong in an incredibly cheap way. Being able to cast a thundaga spell it costing only 10 mp? and I have 200 mp?

where is the justice for the STR users .___.
The main reason for the mp rate to go up is so there is a balance. This is why we have the right to keep thunder, thundara, thundaga that way we can choose whether or not we want to use a pwerful spell and take the mp cost of it or if we want to play it safe and use a thundara spell...

It not only lets you choose your damage but it keeps the balance of power in check. It doesn't make mages so overly powerful it's ridiculous you know?

Of course a balance must be made, and it can be made.

Perhaps Firaga could be weakened, so it's stronger than Fire, but it's not stronger than say a 30MP price tag.

Really, it's not being cheap seeing as you need to put work in to make it that way, so it reflects your abilities better, and players all have the same options so it's always fair.

Yeah, having the choice there is good, but sometimes restricting choice makes strategy all the more important and effective.

Either way it will work fine, but I feel the system would be better with replaced spells, instead of a huge inventory.

[Griever!]

I rather have my weaker spells along with my other spells I wouldn't want to be stronger because I upgraded them and it just feels like I have an advantage of sorts. I actually like casting lower magics believe it or not. And if I have an affinity for lets say fire. *fire is used alot for examples* I might not want to use fira or something for mp purposes. The only replace idea that I can see working would be Ig's. The mp shouldn't be the same... it's way too much of an advantage. I still like casting my lower spells especially with the elemental system I would have more of a use for it and get the full advantage for it. but a the difference in Ap for a level 1 spell and a level 3 spell only being 2-3 ap I can also live with that.

I honestly don't care otherwise if it's replaced or not... I just don't want spells to cost the same after getting upgraded. I like using my old spells alot. Iggy's idea is the best for replacing spells as long as the mp rate goes up which I beleive he even said. Just as long as the mp rate isn't the same, to where in chapter 397, I have like a volcano spell that does 1k damage and it only costs me 10 mp.