Uzumaki Ramen Shop - Naruto Thread Rebirth - Page 713

~~Fagren~~ · November 29th, 2009, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Conquerer

^Filler, so his character isn't canon.

Exactly, which means he's a fake, a.k.a not real.

Nevermore · November 29th, 2009, 07:09 AM

Apparently some people need to be reminded of general rules when it comes to the canon of stories told through multiple mediums.

1) The original work, unless otherwise stated by the author/original creator, is considered canon.
2) Any parts of related works that are canonized by the author/original creator are considered canon.
3) Any parts of related works that could still possibly be relevant to the story, yet aren't canonized by the author/original creator, are considered non-canon.
4) Any parts of related works that are rendered irrelevant to the story (IE, they have no lasting impact/are dead) are considered canon until otherwise stated by the author/original creator.

Hence, Raiga was one of the 7 Swordsmen. If Kishi says he isn't, or if all seven swordsmen are introduced in the manga; then Raiga will get the boot.

~~Fagren~~ · November 29th, 2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Apparently some people need to be reminded of general rules when it comes to the canon of stories told through multiple mediums.

1) The original work, unless otherwise stated by the author/original creator, is considered canon.
2) Any parts of related works that are canonized by the author/original creator are considered canon.
3) Any parts of related works that could still possibly be relevant to the story, yet aren't canonized by the author/original creator, are considered non-canon.
4) Any parts of related works that are rendered irrelevant to the story (IE, they have no lasting impact/are dead) are considered canon until otherwise stated by the author/original creator.

Hence, Raiga was one of the 7 Swordsmen. If Kishi says he isn't, or if all seven swordsmen are introduced in the manga; then Raiga will get the boot.

Your number 4 is subjective therefore invalid.The manga came before the anime, which you may have known, so Raiga is not canon.

Nevermore · November 29th, 2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agren

Your number 4 is subjective therefore invalid.The manga came before the anime, which you may have known, so Raiga is not canon.

It's not subjective. As it stands, Raiga being a member of the 7 Swordsmen is irrelevant. Kishi has neither confirmed nor denied his status as a one of the swordsmen, nor has he replaced him with anybody. The fact that it, as it stands, cannot hinder Kishi's plot (though, to be perfectly honest, calling this a plot is somewhat laughable) in any way, shape, or form makes him one of the 7 Swordsmen until it either does the aforementioned or Kishi says he isn't.

And obviously the manga is the original work.

~~Fagren~~ · November 29th, 2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevermore

It's not subjective. As it stands, Raiga being a member of the 7 Swordsmen is irrelevant. Kishi has neither confirmed nor denied his status as a one of the swordsmen, nor has he replaced him with anybody. The fact that it, as it stands, cannot hinder Kishi's plot (though, to be perfectly honest, calling this a plot is somewhat laughable) in any way, shape, or form makes him one of the 7 Swordsmen until it either does the aforementioned or Kishi says he isn't.

And obviously the manga is the original work.

It is subjective, this is the same as the Terra=Xehanort theories where the "you can't disprove or prove it unless Nomura confrims it" crap comes into play.

Nevermore · November 29th, 2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agren

It is subjective, this is the same as the Terra=Xehanort theories where the "you can't disprove or prove it unless Nomura confrims it" crap comes into play.

Nope. In the case of Terra=Xehanort theories, those are fan-made guesses and unrelated to the material. The actual show stated that Raiga was one of the 7 Swordsmen, not a fan-made theory. Now if the game itself indicated that Terra=Xehanort, then that'd be a fair comparison (except I think that BBS is automatically canon, but I could be wrong).

~~Fagren~~ · November 29th, 2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Nope. In the case of Terra=Xehanort theories, those are fan-made guesses and unrelated to the material. The actual show stated that Raiga was one of the 7 Swordsmen, not a fan-made theory. Now if the game itself indicated that Terra=Xehanort, then that'd be a fair comparison (except I think that BBS is automatically canon, but I could be wrong).

The Filler stated Raiga was a 7 Swordsman.

Nevermore · November 29th, 2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agren

The Filler stated Raiga was a 7 Swordsman.

Right. The filler is part of the show.

mad cunt · November 29th, 2009, 09:11 AM

Raiga and Ranmaru were lame, thinly veiled copies of Zabuza and Haku. Raiga has no shark teeth or a fruit-related name, and is overall pretty ghey. Even if Kishi declared it canon I wouldn't accept it. He wasn't in the manga, so no, Sasuke isn't going to suddenly stumble across his swords (in the manga) because they haven't been previously alluded to (in the manga).

~~Fagren~~ · November 29th, 2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Right. The filler is part of the show.

Filler isn't apart of the manga, which makes Raiga non canon.

Nevermore · November 29th, 2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agren

Filler isn't apart of the manga, which makes Raiga non canon.

. . . did you suddenly forget what I said before? I don't mean that as a rhetorical insult but as a serious question.

~~Fagren~~ · November 29th, 2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevermore

. . . did you suddenly forget what I said before? I don't mean that as a rhetorical insult but as a serious question.

Nope, however, the fact remains that the manga has no filler, Raiga being a filler character with a filler background, is noncanon.As I've said your number 4 is basically "You can't prove/disprove it unless it gets confirmed" and that will never get acknowledged as fact.

El Coquí · November 29th, 2009, 02:03 PM

well it is thought/assumed/implied that any filler character is none canon. plus if he was a swordsman he lakes the shrap teeth they all have. Kisame, zabuza, chojuro, and even suigetsu have the teeth. What raiga has though that neither chojuro or suigetsu has is a title like kisame and zabuza "thunder of the hidden mist" I dont think he is canon but its up to the person

Nevermore · November 29th, 2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agren

Nope, however, the fact remains that the manga has no filler, Raiga being a filler character with a filler background, is noncanon.As I've said your number 4 is basically "You can't prove/disprove it unless it gets confirmed" and that will never get acknowledged as fact.

I think you misunderstand the basic idea of number 4. So I'll say it more clearly, using this specific issue:

1) Raiga was called 7 Swordsman in the filler.
2) Raiga being a 7 Swordsmen currently doesn't effect the plot at all.
3) Therefore, there's no reason not to consider him a part of 7 Swordsmen outside of arbitrary issues.

Number 4 doesn't imply that something is flat-out canon, which is why I worded it carefully. It simply means that something can be considered canon, as doing so doesn't effect the story's lore in any meaningful way. Even more simply put, number 4 implies that it's a non-issue, so why bother arguing it? Just let him be a 7 Swordsmen because it doesn't matter whether he is or isn't at this point.

Mental Note: I find myself struck with the sudden realization that I may be taking this too seriously; this being a Naruto thread and all.

~~Fagren~~ · November 29th, 2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevermore

I think you misunderstand the basic idea of number 4. So I'll say it more clearly, using this specific issue:

1) Raiga was called 7 Swordsman in the filler.
2) Raiga being a 7 Swordsmen currently doesn't effect the plot at all.
3) Therefore, there's no reason not to consider him a part of 7 Swordsmen outside of arbitrary issues.

Number 4 doesn't imply that something is flat-out canon, which is why I worded it carefully. It simply means that something can be considered canon, as doing so doesn't effect the story's lore in any meaningful way. Even more simply put, number 4 implies that it's a non-issue, so why bother arguing it? Just let him be a 7 Swordsmen because it doesn't matter whether he is or isn't at this point.

Mental Note: I find myself struck with the sudden realization that I may be taking this too seriously; this being a Naruto thread and all.

There is no reason to consider Raiga being a canon 7 swordsman, the fact of him being a filler character is against the opinion of thinking Raiga is canon, in the end number 4 still ends up being subjective.